The courtyard at Pickaway Correctional Institution hummed with activity on a sunny Wednesday in March. The prison’s residents stretched their legs under the warm sun and greeted this week’s visitors with the same ease of neighbors passing on the street.
Ioanna Skubas was one of five people visiting the prison, just 15 miles southwest of Columbus, with the Frederick Douglass Project for Justice, a program that brings people inside and outside prison together for community discussions.
Skubas signed up for the project because she wanted to better understand the experiences of those in the legal system – both as a law student and as a central Ohioan.
“People who are incarcerated are part of that community too,” Skubas said. “So I think it's a responsibility to know, to learn and to have an opportunity to kind of speak with them.”
Through the project, free and incarcerated people get around two hours to just talk to each other, not through a small window or over the phone, but face to face. The idea operates on a simple belief: that conversations are powerful enough to change perspectives.
Finding common ground
Inside a bright room, a circle of 22 participants broke the ice by sharing their names, hometowns and favorite movie genres. Wayne Thomas, who lives at Pickaway Correctional, smiled as he introduced himself.
“I’m from Columbus Ohio,” he said. “I like stand-up comedy like Mike Epps, Kevin Hart, you know, stuff like that. Something to make you laugh.”
Then the room split into small groups to discuss provided prompts. The Douglass Project discourages discussion of crimes or professional accomplishments. Instead, the questions focused on finding shared values.
“You see no matter what side of the wall you are, if you're in a free society or you're incarcerated, they kind of all have the same hopes and dreams, especially when it comes to family or just life,” said program facilitator David Schultz.
Skubas and Thomas’ small groups talk about all the things they have in common: the kind of people they admire, the struggle of living in the moment and a recent time they’ve changed their minds. For Thomas, that’s an easy one to recall.
“Before I got incarcerated, I would hear people doing stuff, and I'm like he needs to go to jail forever. He never should get out. And then, like, after being incarcerated, it's like I see a different side to where, like ... I feel like everybody deserves a second chance,” Thomas shared with the group.
As the conversation continued, participants found similar backgrounds, shared hobbies, and common experiences. Thomas asked the newcomers about how they feel on their visit to a prison.
“When I came to prison for the first time, I was nervous … So did you guys feel like that coming in?”
Skubas responded.
“Yeah, I was nervous. I think you read a lot of things, see a lot of things and there’s this preconceived idea," she said. "But …talking to people, you see that a lot of what you thought happens, you can easily put away and ignore.”
Changing perspectives
Douglass Project organizers believe these conversations – between those “inside” and “outside” – can translate into lasting change. For example, people might be more willing to hire or rent an apartment to a formerly incarcerated person if they’ve bonded over a shared love of baseball or swapped family stories.
Program facilitator Schultz said each conversation is an opportunity to give a fuller picture of what it means to be incarcerated. As someone who once was involved in the justice system, he sees immense value in breaking the stereotypes around prison.
“You don't see it on a documentary or on a TV show. You hear first-hand from the individuals that are living it and have been impacted by it,” Shultz said.
It’s a benefit for those inside prison to have opportunities to connect with the outside world, too.
More than 40,000 people are incarcerated in Ohio’s state prisons, according to state data. Many of them will reenter society. For Thomas, the experience reminds him of the opportunities and people that await him when he is released.
“I feel like I could just get more involved in the community and maybe do some community action like how you guys came in here and spoke with the group, I could be a part of some stuff like that,” Thomas said.
Potential expansion
It’s a model that’s being implemented in more than 15 facilities across the country – and it aims to keep growing, said founder and president Marc Howard.
Howard launched the program in 2020, after dedicating most of his life to criminal justice reform. He said they looked to institutions near cities, so that school groups, churches and individuals only have to travel a short distance to visit.
The program has been operating in Pickaway Correctional Institution and the Northeast Reintegration Center in Cleveland since February of last year.
Now, local organizations are recognizing the project’s worth. The Ohio State Bar Association recently gave the Douglass Project $50,000 to continue its programming in Ohio prisons and potentially expand to other facilities across the state.
Humanizing incarceration
The program concluded with lots of laughter and handshakes as visitors bid goodbye to the residents. In Thomas and Skubas’ group there was an additional last request: Michael, a fellow resident and softball teammate of Thomas’, spoke directly to their visitors.
“This is something that happened, something we did, something we're paying for, and now we're in here. But, circumstantially, that's the only difference,” Michael said. “I’m hoping that’s what you guys leave with is the fact that we're all just people. I hope that you would not only leave with it but spread it as you talk to other people.”
The program's participants aren’t asking for sympathy or forgiveness – just recognition that they have lives beyond their sentence.
